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How to associate electrical parts in large enclosures with assets

  • December 22, 2024
  • 7 replies
  • 132 views
E

Hello,

We are working to setup our MaintainX CMMS. I am curious what you all do in the following situation.  

Example: we have a cooking kettle as a parent asset in a processing room location 

The kettle has associated valves, pumps, mixer/agitator, gearmotor, etc. which seem to make sense to be child assets of the kettle.  

On the other hand, we have electrical enclosures that might have 6 VFDs, many circuit breakers, fuses, harmonic filters, PLCs, etc inside. The equipment in the enclosure powers and controls 6 different assets. 

If the VFD for the kettle product pump motor is in the electrical enclosure, do you all make the VFD a child asset of the parent kettle asset?, or do you make the electrical enclosure the parent asset and everything of great enough value inside the enclosure is a child asset of the electrical enclosure?

Or would you have a parent electrical asset for each production room and then breaker panels, electrical enclosures and everything inside, conduits/wiring in the room, etc. are all child asses of the parent production room electrical asset 

Also, how do you sort things like PLCs in the parent/child arrangement? 

Thanks! 

 

Best answer by Ignacio Garrido

Hi Eric,

 

I believe the right answer for this specific case, it's #1. When your company bought the Kettle, you had to acquire that VFD ( or probably came included) to run your Kettle. Your VFD is a device that helps you run your Kettle. When we are talking about life cycle management, we will always think on the whole asset that we are purchasing to produce money (Kettle). There are certain cues we need to identify.

 

In regards of #2 and #3, Yes, your electrical control cabinet could be your parent asset (if it's not shared) however, the Kettle would still be the grandparent asset. I wouldn't suggest you to include the electrical control cabinet and instead skip it because I'm sure you have many other assets that share common spaces like electrical panels. We should try to make it as descriptive as our operations require it, as for example you may ask your self, how offen do I need to replace/repair/troubleshoot the electrical control cabinet by itself? (the box) and most probably you don't replace it every 6 months or year because it's just a box (unless you have a dangerous environment with lots of cranes and forklifts where accidents tend to be something regular....).

 

Overall, it depends on your application and operations. If you never do work orders related to the electrical cabinet by itself (the box), I would suggest you to keep it simple:

Parent asset: Kettle

Child asset: VFD

 

But if for example if you have a cleaning PM for that electrical cabinet (that it's shared between other assets), it would be:

Parent asset: Kettle

Child asset: VFD

 

and

 

Parent asset: Electrical distribution system

Child asset: Electrical control cabinet

 

The electrical distribution systems it's an asset that provides a service for all your other assets, and it ends before any specific electrical devices (VFD) for specific assets (like your Kettle).

 

Watch out for the perfectionist trap. You could spend endless hours writing down all assets in MaintainX. Try to keep it simple.

 

Hope I gave you some valuable insights.

 

Cheers

ignacio@factorycare.ca

 

 

 

    nickhaase

    7 replies

    Ignacio Garrido
    • Ignacio Garrido
    • Advanced Operator
    • December 30, 2024

    Hi Eric,

     

    You made a great question and I'm sure many others may be on the same boat as you.

    Here are a few insights to help out solving your questions about this topic:

     

    - You want to sort out your assets in the best way to help your asset management

    - If you are setting, for example, your VFD as parent of your cooking kettle, you are thinking on terms of electrical diagram/blueprints downstream, but we are not looking to represent an electrical diagram on our asset management system.

    - The VFD controlling your cooking kettle is just another constraint/requirement that helps your cooking kettle to work properly. If you are using also water, or gas on this asset, these would also be constrains/requirements to allow your asset a propper operation.

    - I would definetely suggest you to set as asset parent is your electrical distribution system (not the VFD specifically)

    - Going backwards to the idea of organizing it on a way to help your asset management, if your cooking kettle is down, it may be because of an issue with the VFD or with anything else on the asset. So if you were talking with your production team, you just don't say your VFD is down because something is wrong with you cooking kettle since it would sound awkwards. Also if later on you want to investigate on all issues related to your cooking kettle, you want to see your VFD failures, hence you want to have it as a child.

    - Overall in my opinion, set electrical distribution system (all the way before VFD) and Cooking Kettle as as parent assets, and set VFD as the child asset of your Cooking Kettle.

     

    Hope I helped you gain some clarity on this topic.

     

    Cheers,

    ignacio@factorycare.ca

    nickhaase
    E
    • Eric F.
    • Author
    • Emerging Technician
    • December 30, 2024

    Hello Ignacio,

    I think I follow what you’re saying, but I am wondering if 

    1. the VFD would normally be considered a child asset of the kettle (or) 
    2. the VFD would normally be considered a child of the electrical control cabinet that it’s in (or) 
    3. the electrical/instrumentation for that room would be the parent asset, then the electrical enclosure as the child asset, and then the VFD in the enclosure would be a childe of the electrical enclosure… 

    As I’m getting more involved in this process, I’m starting to think it could be #3

    Thanks, Eric 

    Ignacio Garrido
    • Ignacio Garrido
    • Advanced Operator
    • Answer
    • December 31, 2024

    Hi Eric,

     

    I believe the right answer for this specific case, it's #1. When your company bought the Kettle, you had to acquire that VFD ( or probably came included) to run your Kettle. Your VFD is a device that helps you run your Kettle. When we are talking about life cycle management, we will always think on the whole asset that we are purchasing to produce money (Kettle). There are certain cues we need to identify.

     

    In regards of #2 and #3, Yes, your electrical control cabinet could be your parent asset (if it's not shared) however, the Kettle would still be the grandparent asset. I wouldn't suggest you to include the electrical control cabinet and instead skip it because I'm sure you have many other assets that share common spaces like electrical panels. We should try to make it as descriptive as our operations require it, as for example you may ask your self, how offen do I need to replace/repair/troubleshoot the electrical control cabinet by itself? (the box) and most probably you don't replace it every 6 months or year because it's just a box (unless you have a dangerous environment with lots of cranes and forklifts where accidents tend to be something regular....).

     

    Overall, it depends on your application and operations. If you never do work orders related to the electrical cabinet by itself (the box), I would suggest you to keep it simple:

    Parent asset: Kettle

    Child asset: VFD

     

    But if for example if you have a cleaning PM for that electrical cabinet (that it's shared between other assets), it would be:

    Parent asset: Kettle

    Child asset: VFD

     

    and

     

    Parent asset: Electrical distribution system

    Child asset: Electrical control cabinet

     

    The electrical distribution systems it's an asset that provides a service for all your other assets, and it ends before any specific electrical devices (VFD) for specific assets (like your Kettle).

     

    Watch out for the perfectionist trap. You could spend endless hours writing down all assets in MaintainX. Try to keep it simple.

     

    Hope I gave you some valuable insights.

     

    Cheers

    ignacio@factorycare.ca

     

     

     

    nickhaase
    E
    • Eric F.
    • Author
    • Emerging Technician
    • January 2, 2025

    Thank you for your input! Much appreciated

    nickhaase
    Guy Leppin
    Forum|alt.badge.img+1
    • Guy Leppin
    • Emerging Technician
    • March 22, 2025

    Eric,

    This is what I have found to work the best.  Parent = Equipment and Child = Component. A piece of equipment performs a function. That piece of equipment is made up of components. Each component cannot perform a function on its own. The equipment and all its components are a parent child relationship in the asset hierarchy. We want to track failures of our equipment therefore we need all the components that directly support the function of that equipment in the hierarchy together. 

    Let's say your kettle has a lid that is lifted with a hydraulic cylinder, and it has a tip cylinder that tips the kettle to pour out the contents. The hydraulic control valves at the central hydraulic unit are components of the kettle equipment. Even though that hydraulic power unit may supply many other pieces of equipment with hydraulic power. Same as the VFD in the motor control center (MCC). That MCC distributes power to many pieces of equipment. The hydraulic valves and the VFD combined with the kettle perform a function.

    The motor control center cabinet and the central hydraulic unit both are pieces of equipment. However, we keep the items that directly contribute to other functions out of the hierarchy for these pieces of equipment. The equipment hydraulic unit (parent) will have components (children) such as tank, pump, filter, heat exchanger. We draw a line at the valve block and put that valve component with equipment it is part of. The same goes for the MCC. The MCC is a piece of equipment that has components such as frame, base, buss bar, main disconnect. Again, we draw a line at the Bucket as that component belongs to a separate piece of equipment.

    Not only does this allow us to track failures on all our equipment's components it also allows our maintenance technicians to more easily troubleshoot. They don't need to guess what bucket in the MCC is driving this unit or what valve at the HPU is feeding this cylinder. It is all right there in the hierarchy. Furthermore, the component (child) of bucket or the valve can have a different Location than the equipment (parent). This also helps in LOTO. This setup also makes it much easier to plan work.

    Now components are made up of parts. Therefore, all of our parts need to reside in our meta data at the component level of the hierarchy. 

    In the scenario above I would build the hierarchy like this.

    • Kettle
      • Lid
        • Cylinder
        • Valve
      • Body
        • Cylinder
        • Valve
      • MCC Bucket
        • VFD
        • Fuse

    I hope that helps.

    Guy

    GUY
    nickhaase
    E
    E
    • Eric F.
    • Author
    • Emerging Technician
    • March 22, 2025

    Guy, this is great info. 

    Thank you! 

    nickhaase
    Guy Leppin
    Forum|alt.badge.img+1
    • Guy Leppin
    • Emerging Technician
    • April 8, 2025

    Glad I could help.

    GUY
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